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  • JVC NZ900 + NZ500 da Videosell il 14 e 15 novembre a Milano

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[sony bdp s-790] lettore blu ray

Per mia cattiva abitudine disattivo tutti i controlli opzionali e cerco sempre di uscire in fLAT... ( direct )
ciò premesso ho provato ad attivare piu volte il sbm ma non mi è parso di notare nulla di convincente per cui resta su OFF.

Del resto, siccome è possibile scegliere se usarlo o meno, credo che non sia una funzione veramente indispensabile...
 
Del resto, siccome è possibile scegliere se usarlo o meno, credo che non sia una funzione veramente indispensabile...
Beh, e' un punto di forza di quel lettore, e della Sony all'epoca in cui e' uscito l'S790 (2011).
Per notarne l'effetto pero' bisogna avere anche le condizioni adatte nell'impianto.

Ho postato in passato su questo thread il PDF della Sony che spiega cos'e' il SBM.
 
Nel link postato poco sopra si fa riferimento a SBMV che richiede appunto del materiale apposito oltre ad una catena che supporti il formato.
 
Per "godere" le "meraviglie" del SBM non occorre nessun hardware specifico:
Super Bit Mapping for Video (SBM-V)–Video reproduction with the equivalent of 14-bit color gradation on any HDTV set

Qualche volta che ho tempo lo riprovo, ma ricordo bene che dopo parecchi ON - OFF decisi di disattivare il SBM
 
Leggendo il manuale del mio BDP-S790 ci ho trovato queste info: "Outputs 16bit/12bit/10bit video signals when the connected TV is compatible with Deep Color" e "16 Bit video processing for premium picture quality with SBMV".
Il pannello del mio KDL-46HX850 è a 12bit, quindi il lettore dovrebbe mandare in uscita 12bit. Per fortuna, anche il mio ampli Onkyo riporta la compatibilità con Deep Color e x.v.Color.

Relativamente all'x.v.Color di Sony ho trovato quanto segue:
Deep Color increases the number of bits available for transmission for each channel. This means that there are more shades available for a TV to mix together. So, for example, a TV that accepts the new standard in 12-bit form can mix together any one of 4,096 shades (levels of brightness) of each primary color for 68.7 billion possible colors (4,096 red x 4,096 green x 4,096 blue = 68,719,476,736 colors). HDMI 1.2 could only transfer 8 bits per channel. So, there were only 256 shades of each color to choose from and fewer colors overall (256 x 256 x 256 = 16.7 million). These different shades help decrease artifacts (like color banding) and increase color fidelity. The visible picture-quality increase from 8 bits per channel to 10 or even 16 (in its highest 1.3 form) has been and is still being debated, but having the ability to transmit xvYCC and Deep Color sure can't hurt. Together, they mean that there will be more and better colors for future displays.

In order to make for a wider color gamut and a higher bit depth for even more realistic-looking displays (capable of creating a wider range of colors), every step in the chain needs to do that exact thing, as well. If the camera can only do Rec.709, it won't matter that your TV can do more than that, because that extra color isn't in the source (which is, uh, the situation we have now). If the camera can do xvYCC but the medium (say, HDTV broadcasts) can't, again, it won't matter that your TV can do it. In other words, for you to see the new colors, material will have to be shot, transferred, encoded, and mastered in xvYCC and Deep Color.

Da cui l'esistenza di Blu-ray con codifica SBMV.
 
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Va bene....
ma per quanto riguarda la funzione SBM di cui parlavamo la stessa sony dice come segue:

Super Bit Mapping for Video (SBM-V)–Video reproduction with the equivalent of 14-bit color gradation on any HDTV set

This gradation conversion technology reproduces images generated by HD Reality Enhancer with the equivalent of 14-bit gradation, even with HDTVs featuring 8-bit and10-bit panels. Low sensitivity at high frequencies is a characteristic of human vision with high-frequency signals appearing, to the human eye, visually averaged. This means that it is possible to achieve visually smooth gradation, even with a limited number of bits, by superposing minute quantization errors in high-frequency areas where sensitivity is low (noise shaping). Also, since this system always uses high-frequency areas, perceived noise is far lower than with conventional gradation conversion processes. Compressed 8-bit output without this technology causes the smooth gradation to be lost, allowing color banding to reappear. Sony's exclusive SBM-V gradation conversion technology brings out the full potential of superb image quality produced by HD Reality Enhancer. Now it is possible to enjoy this superior image quality on any HDTV set.

----------------------

IL HD Reality Enhancer mi pare di capire che funzioni in fase di lettura del software e non in fase di registrazione:

HD Reality Enhancer–analyzes characteristics of individual pixel level
and reconstructs video images with enhanced color gradation
The HD Reality Enhancer analyzes the feature points of individual pixels in video input and automatically optimizes each pixel according to the feature points detected. Data lost through compression and other processes is recovered, allowing the image to be reconstructed with 14-bit precision.

The video analysis block has multiple feature point analysis modules and can detect flat areas, detailed areas, edges, noise, subtitles and other aspects at the pixel level. This data is used to select the optimal process, and to control the intensity of processing. The video analysis block uses video analysis to control the following two factors.


Alla fine mi pare di capire che al SBM non serve uno specifico display tantomeno uno specifico software.
 
Relativamente all'uso di pannelli a 12bit, io avevo trovato questo:
12-Bit Color
A major improvement from 8-bit color, 12-bit offers up to 69 billion colors on screen at any given time. At this bit rate the color banding that plagues 8-bit processing is gone, dramatically increasing the realism of the image. This capability is limited only by the resolution of the image, as provided by the source equipment and display devices. Only a few million picture elements, or pixels, are on screen at any given moment. The processing in the source and display devices must therefore correctly choose the right color, hence the introduction of Deep Color. As this capability increases, the capacity of the HDMI cables must increase to keep pace. The use of 12-bit color depth is in practice a guarantee of sorts that, as device resolution increases, the right amount of color accuracy is maintained.

e anche questo:
It is extremely important to understand that every movie that was ever transferred to a DVD or other digital format has been transferred using 8-bit color depth. While the newest Deep Color format might give an improvement in the quality of the picture, there is no content currently available, no archived material, no movies, and no TV shows, that can be trans-coded easily into the new system. With the current problems of Digital Rights Management (DRM) and High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) just starting to be worked out, it is highly unlikely that the entertainment industry and Hollywood will hurry to produce software that is an exact copy of the original movie quality. The first place Deep Color will be used is in advanced gaming systems, starting with the Playstation 3 in November 2006.

E se ho capito bene il materiale Sony SBMV usa la codifica xvYCC:
xvYCC is a particular clever way of encoding color data: it abuses the YCC representation by using previously-forbidden combinations of values to represent colors outside the gamut of the RGB space used in the YCC scheme. That is, some YCC tuples decode to colors with negative R G or B values. Previously these were simply illegal; in xvYCC these are permitted, and displays with bigger gamuts than the RGB system are welcome to render these as best they can. So really it's a clever mostly-compatible hack to get some extra gamut without much changing the format.


it appears that xvYCC is an enhanced form of Y'CbCr encoding that stores encoded luminance/chrominance color information with more bits than YUV. Instead of encoding luminance and chrominance in interleaved sets of 2-4 bits, xvYCC encodes color in modern 10-bit values.

Quindi incorporando le vostre info, capisco che se il materiale di partenza è 8 bit, viene artificialmente "pompato" a 14bit con questo HD Reality Enhancer, e quindi processato a 16 bit dal SBMV, mentre se il materiale di partenza è già oltre gli 8 bit (come nel caso dei dischi SBMV) si passa direttamente al processamento a 16 bit.
 
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In un thread sul forum AVS avevo trovato una interessante discussione su come calibrare la catena di riproduzione:
Now that we have xvYCC consumer sources available with the Sony "Mastered in 4K" blurays, how do we calibrate for it?


Remember, if turning on xvYCC changes the image visibly when you are playing nornal non-xvYCC sources, one or both of the involved components are doing something wrong. It's always safest to keep it turned off, but turning it on should not change what you see on-screen from normal consumer video sources (cable, satellite, blu-ray) should not change at all. xvYCC's coordinates for the wider gamut are unrecognizeable to any normal "HDTV mode". If that mode changes anything, the TV or source have some kind of problem.

e anche
xvYCC isn't an absolute colour space, which means its result is based on the type of display you have and how it can handle/display the extended gamut.

What I would suggest is start with your display being calibrated as to the Rec.709 standard, and then enable x.v.Colour and observe the result. As I said, if there is a big difference, turn it off, as it will actually degrade PQ.

Ergo, se non date in pasto al vostro BDP-S790 dischi SBMV o "mastered in 4K", attivare o meno SBMV non dovrebbe produrre risultati diversi sullo schermo no?

Oppure state dicendo che anche il materiale non-xvYCC viene "pseudo-convertito" dall'HD Reality Enhancer e quindi trae sempre beneficio dal SBMV?
 
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Per quella che è la mia esperienza con SBM attivo ottengo delle gradazioni dei colori più sfumate....fatyola prova con Up nell'azzurrodel cielo....
 
Oppure state dicendo che anche il materiale non-xvYCC viene "pseudo-convertito" dall'HD Reality Enhancer e quindi trae sempre beneficio dal SBMV?
Questo lo dice la Sony.

il punto è che, siccome io sono come San Tommaso, ho fatto delle prove e non mi è parso di notare niente, nessun cambiamento significativo, tant'è che ( nel dubbio ) lo tengo disattivato... Ma siccome mi sto di nuovo incuriosendo, rifarò sicuramente altre prove.
 
Per quella che è la mia esperienza con SBM attivo ottengo delle gradazioni dei colori più sfumate....fatyola prova con Up nell'azzurrodel cielo....

Esattamente quello che noto io, aggiungo che dimensione Tv e distanza di visione contano per notare questi particolari. Sul mio la differenza tra attivo e disattivo si nota eccome soprattutto sugli incarnati.
 
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Praticamente posseggo il lettore bluray 3d della Sony che ha un'uscita ottica e l'ho collegato attraverso cavo ottico al sintoamplificatore della Kenwood 5.1 (non ha uscita HDMI). Il problema è che non riesco a sentire l'audio,ne in dolby digital ne in dts. Con il vecchio lettore dvd invece riuscivo tranquillamente a sentire.Come mai?Ho provato a spulciare nelle impostazioni del bluray,ma non sono riuscito ad attivare l'audio.Sul sintoamplificatore non esce scritto dd o dts in automatico,mentre quando collegavo il vecchio lettore dvd si.

questo è il modello del lettore

http://www.amazon.it/Sony-BDP-S790-B...pr_product_top

questo è il sintoamplificatore (krf v5100d)

http://www.dagtk.net/forum/uploads/678_23012010130.jpg
 
Buongiorno, sono interessato all'acquisto di questo lettore, ma ho un solo dubbio i flie divx li legge? se si sia da supporto usb (chiavetta e/o hdd) che disco? grazie.
Ulima richiesta, meglio connetterlo in hdmi al sinto per ricevere tutte le codiche audio?
Grazie.
 
Ciao a tutti. Ho provato a riprodurre un Blu ray 1080 50 p, creato da me da videocamera Panasonic tm 700.....ma il lettore si blocca....Avete esperienze in merito? Grazie
 
Scusate se riprendo la discussione sul SBMV ma sono veramente interessato a capire come funzioni:

Il link che avete postato sopra al sito Sony contiene una spiegazione sul funzionamento del chip CREAS che include le due funzioni HD Reality Enhancer e Super Bit Mapping for Video.

La funzione dell'HD Reality Enhancer sembra quella di "ricostruire" parte dell'informazione che viene persa quando il materiale sorgente viene compresso (i blu-ray sono normalmente codificati in YCbCr 4:2:0 a 8bit con il range limitato a 16-235) mediante una upconversion a 14bit 4:2:2.
The HD Reality Enhancer analyzes the feature points of individual pixels in video input and automatically optimizes each pixel according to the feature points detected. Data lost through compression and other processes is recovered, allowing the image to be reconstructed with 14-bit precision.

It enhances the image by subtly modifying detail at the individual pixel level to restore data lost during data compression.

The smoothing system accurately detects color banding and restores the original smooth gradation at 14-bit quality. Smoothing is not applied to areas where there is no banding, so there is no unintentional loss of precision in textured areas.

Deep Color is a new HDMI standard that supports 12-bit, high-gradation output. CREAS was designed to extract the full potential of the Deep Color specification by adding 14-bit precision. Sony BD systems equipped with HD Reality Enhancer have the power needed to support Deep Color output.

L'SBM-V è invece indicato come "gradation conversion technology" capace di riprodurre materiale con una gradazione equivalente a 14-bit su pannelli da 8bit o 10bit.
This gradation conversion technology reproduces images generated by HD Reality Enhancer with the equivalent of 14-bit gradation, even with HDTVs featuring 8-bit and10-bit panels.

It is possible to achieve visually smooth gradation, even with a limited number of bits, by superposing minute quantization errors in high-frequency areas where sensitivity is low (noise shaping).

Compressed 8-bit output without this technology causes the smooth gradation to be lost, allowing color banding to reappear.
.

Con normali dischi Blu-ray il lettore dovrebbe attivare l'HD Reality Enhancer per portare i contenti da 8bit 4:2:0 a 14bit 4:2:2 e poi SBM-V per mandare in output al pannello un segnale equivalente a 14bit 4:4:4 (sia che il pannello sia a 8bit, a 10 bit oppure a 12bit).
sbm-450x337.jpg

La mia domanda allora è: il logo SBM-V su alcuni dischi Blu-ray prodotti da Sony cosa indica di preciso? Il materiale sorgente è sempre 8bit 4:2:0?

Edit: In internet ho trovato scritto questo:
SPHE uses Super Bit Mapping for Video (SBMV) on all Sony titles now which greatly reduces color banding. In that regard, you will notice the little SBMV logo on the back of the Blu-ray packaging.

questo:
SBMV is a dithering algorithm useful to prevent color banding artefacts (aka "not uniform color gradations"). It doesn't need a particular support from the standalone players since it affects the encoding process (so the result is already encoded). There are anyways some players that have SBMV built-in as a filter to allow an user to mitigate the color banding artefacts on an already compressed video.

The master doesn't suffer from color banding (in general). Masters have higher quality/bit depth/informations than the final encoded version for bluray. The color banding comes when you do the compression stage, because some color informations are thrown away. Dithering is useful to 'mask' this discarded informations using a sort of 'rounding'. If you don't dither, there's no 'rounding' so you see the bandings. You do something similar with audio too. When you need to go from a 24bit audio to a 16 bit audio, you do a bit-depth conversion adding 'noise' to round the conversion.
Speaking about the video, the masters are in general at 10bit (but there are sources at higher bit-depth), while the videos on bluray are forced to 8bit (because it's more efficient compression-wise and human eye is weak on color informations, except color bandings).

e anche questo:
Ghost in the Shell S.A.C 2nd GIG Blu-ray Disc BOX-1 will be utilizing an updated “SBMV” (Super Bit Mapping for Video) technology to help its encoding, in order to minimize color banding issues on digital animations. The technology is developed by SONY PCL, previously have been used on Evangelion 1.11 You are (not) alone Blu-ray Disc and Eureka Seven the Movie Pocketful of Rainbows. This time, the updated version, named “SBMV Extend” will be used on Ghost in the Shell S.A.C 2nd GIG Blu-ray Disc BOX-1 and Mai-Otome Zwei COMPLETE. Color banding in digital animation is usually caused by transferring from original 10-bit source to Blu-ray 8-bit destination.

Edit: Ho trovato un video dove si spiega un pochino come funzionano le due tecnologie

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/09/...t-mapping-and-hd-reality-enhancer-technology/

PS: Se capisco bene, i nuovi dischi "Mastered in 4k" differiscono dai dischi con logo SBMV in quanto sono codificati in accordo allo schema xvYCC:
Sony's 4K mastered BD encodes extra color information into BTB (0 to 15) and WTW (236-255) region. So, there is no changes to BD authoring process, format or bitrates (although these BDs typically use highest possible bitrates). To most players, they will simply throw away the BTB and WTW information and display normal encoding of the movie. It will require special BD firmware to read the extra color information in BTB and WTW and reconstruct the xvColor copy of the movie.

You also need to be outputting in YCbCr and not in RGB, because x.v.Colour will not work if you are sending RGB. On another related note, Deep Colour isn't supported with YCbCr 4:2:2, which is why most players only have an 'auto' or 'off' setting.

FWIW, the back-cover text on my copy of After Earth says that it is "mastered in 4K" and "Expanded color requires xvYCC-compatible TV and Blu-ray player."
 
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