CINEALE

[ALE77]

B. Mount the microphone on a boom arm microphone stand with an adapter or a camera tripod.

1. While more expensive, the floor-standing boom arm microphone stand allows more precise microphone placement and the possible reduction or elimination of mechanical vibrations, which can affect low-frequency measurements. The boom arm microphone stand rests on the floor, while a camera tripod typically rests on the seat(s).
a. Search the web for “On Stage CM-01” to see one microphone stand adapter.

2. If possible, place the microphone stand behind the seat with the boom arm extending forward so there will be no obstructions between the microphone and the speakers.
a. The microphone stand and boom arm cause reflections at high frequencies, so it is best to keep it out of the way; at least for the front speaker measurements.

C. Point the microphone at the ceiling.

D. Place the microphone at ear height when seated.

1. During the measurement process, do not vary the height of the microphone more than a few inches relative to the first measured position.

2. If you have large dipole line-source speakers (Soundlabs, Innersound/Sanders, Magnepan, Martin Logan, etc.), or unusually tall speakers, please visit AVS member JonFo’s addendum on Audyssey setup and measurements for large dipole speakers, located here: http://www.martinloganowners.com/~tdacquis/forum/showthread.php?t=9401

E. If the seat back is higher than ear height, ensure the microphone is raised above the seat back.

1. Positioning the microphone above the seat back will eliminate additional reflections.

2. For recliner chairs, you can recline the seat (lower the back) to minimize the reflections.

V. Microphone Placement (Measurement Positions)

A. Use the maximum amount of measurement positions allowed by the Audyssey version.

1. If you are using MultEQ or MultEQ XT you should use all six or eight measurement positions available.

B. Avoid taking measurements too far off to the side (near room boundaries) and / or outside the front Left and Right loudspeakers (off-axis), even if seats are located there.

1. Frequency response in these locations will exhibit reduced high frequencies.

2. Audyssey would adjust the room correction filters according to this measured response, resulting in unnecessary compensation.

C. Avoid taking measurements too close to the back wall, even if the only seating is located there.

 

[ALE77]

1. Move the microphone at least 1 foot (30 cm) from the back wall before measuring.

D. Measure behind the main seating area—at ear height, obviously—if you can.

1. If the main seating area is out in the room, and you can measure behind it while keeping the microphone at least 1 foot (30 cm) from the back wall, you should do it. The idea is to "surround" the seating area with measurements.

E. For the first measurement, place the microphone at ear height in the primary seat / listening position, where the listener’s head would be positioned.

1. Audyssey uses the first measurement position to calculate the speaker / subwoofer level and time delay (aka distance) settings, so the microphone should be placed in the primary seating position.

2. Distance measurements are really time measurements that ensure temporal coherence. It is a critical part of calibration because—without it—you have frequencies arriving at different times: This is called non-constant group delay, and is a form of distortion. The distances are calculated so the sounds from all speakers and subwoofers arrive at the first measurement position at the same time.

F. Most seating configurations can utilize the following microphone placement methodology:

1. The first microphone position (#1) must always be where your head is located.

2. For the remainder of the measurements, use the approximate pattern in the below diagram to surround your listening area, while ensuring you follow the guidance above.

3. After the first measurement, the order in which you make the subsequent measurements does not matter: The diagram below only serves to ensure each location is measured.

4. The distance between the measurement positions is variable, and they do not require measurement. The basic idea is to surround the listening area with measurements.

5. In general, Audyssey does not recommend putting the microphone in "every seat", except (possibly) in a dedicated theater with rows. In typical living rooms, some seats are positioned either off-axis, too close to a room boundary, or both.

6. Feel free to experiment with other microphone placement patterns. Just ensure you follow the guidance in sections IV and V. The basic goal is to surround the listener(s) with measurements to create an acoustic bubble.

7. If you have additional microphone placement questions, visit the Official Audyssey thread on AVS Forum; please see the link at the beginning of this document.

 

[ALE77]

VI. During Calibration

A. Be prepared for the “chirp” measurements, as they are quite loud, and can startle you.

B. Do not make any noise during the “chirp” measurements.

1. Audyssey measures for a few milliseconds (ms) after each “chirp” is finished, but then has to wait for the DSP to calculate, so the microphone is not active until a few ms before the next set of chirps.

C. Do not stand in between the speaker and the microphone or anywhere that the sound is either reflected off of—or absorbed by—your body.

1. The natural room acoustics must not be substantially affected.

D. If a phase warning is shown, check the speaker wiring, and press “Skip” to continue the calibration.

VII. After Calibration

A. Raise the speaker crossover settings, if desired.

1. Raising the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting does not affect the channel correction implemented by Audyssey.

2. Lowering the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting is not recommended.
a. Audyssey will not provide correction to the satellite speakers lower than the frequency it measures as the -3 dB point.
3. Audyssey recommends that all speakers be set to “Small” (i.e. not Full Band) by selecting a crossover frequency. This will re-direct the frequencies below the crossover point to the subwoofer, resulting in improved headroom for the main amplifier and 8x higher MultEQ filter resolution in the subwoofer channel (e.g. flatter bass).
a. Setting the speakers to “Small” with a 60 Hz – 80 Hz crossover is a good starting point, assuming the post-calibration crossover setting is 60 Hz or lower.

4. For additional details about the crossover selection process, see “Note 1” below.

B. Raise the low-pass filter (LPF) setting—usually incorrectly identified as a crossover—of the LFE subwoofer in the receiver / processor to 120Hz, if allowed.

C. If the speaker distance settings (not the subwoofer) were not measured accurately, and are markedly different from what you get with a tape measure, start over.

1. Incorrect distance measurements for the satellite speakers indicate a procedural error, and the associated EQ results are likely to be poor.
a. If the recommendations in sections IV and V were followed, you may need to change some physical aspect of the measurement setup.

 

[ALE77]

D. Do not change the distance setting of the subwoofer, unless you have read and completely understood this section: The subwoofer / satellite speaker time alignment blend is based on this setting.

1. Inaccurate subwoofer distance measurements usually occur when a subwoofer’s Low-Pass Filter (LPF) is active, or when using subwoofer equalization systems.
a. The LPF—by nature of its design—introduces additional delay to the signal.
b. Audyssey measures this signal delay and increases the subwoofer distance setting to compensate for it.

2. If the distance measured by Audyssey is greater than the physical distance, there is a signal delay between the generated “pulse” and the arrival of the resultant response at the microphone. This is a common anomaly due to circuitry (e.g. LPF, EQ) in subwoofers.

3. If the distance measured by Audyssey is less than the physical distance, here are some possible causes:
a. Holding the microphone in your hand.
b. Use of a subwoofer with a two-driver push-pull configuration. This is an unexplained phenomenon which has been noted by Audyssey.
c. Tactile transducers (e.g. Crowson, Buttkicker, etc.) left on when measuring.
d. Acoustical low-frequency noise in the room (e.g. projector fan, cable hum).
e. Electrical noise coming from another system component. The most common offender is the cable or other set-top box (STB). In several cases, disconnecting the STB from the system solved the problem.
f. The power supply of a computer connected to the same electrical circuit.
g. If none of the above situations apply to your problem, see “Note 2” below.
h. If you are certain the above scenarios (a. – g.) do not apply to your situation, then you can manually set the distance of the subwoofer in the AVR to the actual physical distance. Ensure you measure from the center of the subwoofer driver to the height of the microphone tip. If you would like to ensure this is the correct action to take, visit the Official Audyssey thread on AVS Forum for a thorough dissection of your problem; please see the link at the beginning of this document.

E. Disable any Night Modes, Dynamic Range Compression (DRC), and Dynamic Compression (D. Comp) in the receiver / processor as well as the DVD / BD player.

1. If these features are not disabled, they could possibly cause adverse interaction with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

2. You may need to temporarily turn off MultEQ to access these parameters in your receiver / processor.

3. You may also need to select a specific soundtrack type or listening mode before a given parameter will appear in the menu for adjustment; check the manual to be certain.

F. If your receiver / processor has the THX Loudness Plus feature, turn it off if you plan to use Dynamic Volume.

 

[ALE77]

G. Select one of the Audyssey target curves. Note that in some receivers / processors, the target curve selection is automatic as explained in #3 below.

1. MultEQ creates filters that correct the frequency response of your speakers to a specific target curve. These target curves are called: (“Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference”) and (“Audyssey Flat”).
a. The “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve is designed to translate film mixing room conditions to the home listening room. This curve is flat to 4 kHz, has a slight roll-off from 4kHz - 10 kHz (-2dB @ 10 kHz), and another additional roll-off from 10 kHz - 20 kHz (-6dB @ 20 kHz). This curve should be used for listening to movies in most cases.
i. In a typical living room, the acoustical conditions require a flat curve up to a certain frequency, and then a roll-off. This roll-off allows the proper balancing of the direct and reverberant sound at high frequencies.
b. The “Audyssey Flat” target curve has no roll-off. This curve should be used for movies if you are seated in the near field, if your room has a lot of high frequency absorption due to acoustic treatments, or if you are using THX Re-EQ.
c. Audyssey research has found that listeners in most home environments are seated in the reverberant field. The mixing of most films (in post-production studios) is completed with the recording engineer seated in the near field. As a result, it is usually beneficial to use a high frequency roll-off (Audyssey or Audyssey Reference curve) to tame brightness. However, if you have an acoustically treated room and / or are seated relatively close to the front speakers, you may be located in the near field. Therefore, it may prove beneficial to try listening without a roll-off (Audyssey Flat curve) to see if there is an improvement in sound quality.

2. Re-Equalization technologies affect the target curve selection.
a. One component of THX is called Re-EQ, which applies a high frequency shelf cut filter. When listening in THX mode with Re-EQ on, it is recommended to use the “Audyssey Flat” target curve.
b. Some manufacturers have developed proprietary high frequency roll-off filters with various trade names; Denon’s “Cinema EQ”, for example. It is recommended to disable (turn off) such roll-off features so the “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve can operate properly.

3. The selection of Audyssey target curves is performed manually in some products (e.g. Denon, NAD, Marantz) and automatically in others (e.g., Onkyo).
a. For products with manual selection follow the guidelines above.
b. For products with automatic selection, the following rules apply:
i. The “Audyssey” or “Audyssey Reference” target curve is selected after calibration.
ii. The “Audyssey Flat” target curve is selected automatically when you switch to a THX listening mode.

4. Note: Music content is not produced with the same standards as film, so, it is difficult to predict which target curve to use. Audyssey recommends starting with the "Audyssey" or “Audyssey Reference” curve. In some cases, the "Audyssey Flat" curve might be preferable for music.

 

[ALE77]

H. If desired, trim level adjustments can be made in the receiver / processor to boost subwoofer levels for those who prefer more bass output. While not recommended, some users have made trim level adjustments so that all speakers measure at 75 dB with an SPL meter (set at “C” and “Slow”) using the internal test tones. See “Note 3” and “Note 4” below.

1. Audyssey will monitor these changes.

2. The changes are monitored so that Audyssey and its features (Room correction curves, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume, etc.) work as designed.

3. If you were to make changes to the settings on a subwoofer amplifier, Audyssey would have no knowledge of this, and those features would not operate as designed.

Note 1 – Crossover Settings
Audyssey MultEQ measures in-room response of each speaker, determining the lowest the frequency they can reasonably produce. This is known as the -3dB frequency point. The -3dB frequency point is used by the receiver / processor to calculate the speaker settings (Large / Small) and set the crossover points, if applicable. The bass management system in the receiver / processor then performs the high and low pass filtering centered at the crossover frequency. The important point is that Audyssey does not set the crossovers. Unfortunately, current receiver / processor models do not display or report the -3dB frequency point measured for each speaker. The only information available is whether or not the speaker was designated “Large” or “Small”, and any crossover point selected.

Receiver / processor manufacturers use a specific Frequency Decision Point (FDP) to classify speakers as “Large” (full-range) or “Small” (less than full-range). The selection of the FDP varies among manufacturers and models, but 40 Hz is becoming the standard. If the -3 dB frequency measured by Audyssey is below the FDP, the speaker is classified as “Large’. If the -3 dB frequency measured by Audyssey is above the FDP, the speaker is classified as “Small”, and a crossover frequency is selected.

Each receiver / processor has various crossover points from which to choose. Typically, the first crossover setting above the -3 dB point measured by Audyssey is chosen. For example: If your receiver has crossover settings of 40, 60, 80, 100 and 120 Hz, and the speaker is set to “Small” with an 80 Hz crossover, that is an indication the - 3dB point is somewhere between 60 and 80 Hz. Crossover selections in increments of 10 Hz are becoming more common, which allows greater flexibility.

Note 2 – Issues which may affect subwoofer distance measurements
After having followed the guidance in section IV and section VII, D., some users still have subwoofer distance measurements that are less than the physical distance. The theory is that mechanical coupling between the camera tripod or microphone stand and some vibrating surface is causing low-frequency vibrations to be transmitted through the flooring and/or seating to the microphone. These vibrations are interpreted as having arrived before the actual sound waves, perhaps because they travel faster through the flooring and/or seating faster than the sound waves travel through the air. The rubber pads on most stands are usually good enough to prevent this, but if any part of the camera tripod, microphone stand, or boom arm is touching a vibrating surface you could have coupling that is picked up by the microphone.

The result is that the subwoofer distance is calculated as too short. Also, the correction Audyssey applies may not be optimal, as this anomaly could fool Audyssey into thinking the subwoofer extends lower than it actually does. Taught leather couches—prevalent in home theaters—are one probable cause, but it may

 

[ALE77]

depend on the structural properties of the various materials. Put your research grant applications in now! In all seriousness, the solution to this theoretical problem is to use a microphone stand with a boom arm positioned so that it rests on the floor and does not touch the seat or any other resonant surface. This solution has corrected the anomaly for some users.

Note 3 – Trim Level Settings
Before adjusting the trim settings, please understand that producing a calibrated setting other than 75 dB Sound Pressure Level (SPL) results in reference level being achieved with the master volume set to something other than “0”. Further, Audyssey microphones are specified with a ± 2 dB maximum sensitivity tolerance. So, in the worst case scenario, the Audyssey microphone would be 2 dB “off”, which is more accurate than most popular consumer-level SPL meters. Consumer-level SPL meters are usually very inaccurate when measuring subwoofers. You have been warned.

Note 4 – Reference Versus Preference
A common misunderstanding about Audyssey stems from differences between reference and preference. It is really important to understand the basic goal of the Audyssey technology: To solve room acoustics problems and the sound degradations they cause. The goal of Audyssey is not to shape the sound to your preference, but rather to shape the sound to reference.

Audyssey measures your room and corrects the acoustical problems based on those measurements. The reference point for this acoustical correction is based upon the only known standard: The mixing room calibration curve used in all film production, and some—but not all—music production.

Assuming there are no problems during the calibration process, what you end up with is a reference calibration. If you have some personal sound preferences, these are outside of what Audyssey is responsible for. Some people want more bass, while others complain there is too much bass. Some people want flat high frequencies, while others do not. These variances represent the difference between reference and preference.

 

[Mino Topan]

Ale,ma sei posseduto!Ti cerco un esorcista?

 

[ALE77]

ahahahahahahah

è una guida molto utile , e ho capito diverse cose .....

 

[franco62]

e che é.... un romanzo a puntate per imparare l'inglese ?

 

[ALE77]

È un inglese molto easy

 

[Neros22]

Ciao Ale, cmq la guida si trova qui:

http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j...l4CICg&usg=AFQjCNGKFrKFSB9sM2iNk_zH0vJG68clIg


Io non riesco a capire-

Io setto i diffusori su SMALL, taglio 100Hz che reputo opportuno, l'Audissey fa il suo lavoro... utili i consigli e la descrizione di come funzioni certi aspetti... poi il risultato è che mi imposta i diffusori su FULL. Io in genere li riporto a SMALL e applico il taglio di HPF/LPF, parlo di Marantz, che desidero.
Credo sia giusto in quanto viene detto:



VII. After Calibration

A. Raise the speaker crossover settings, if desired.

1. Raising the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting does not affect the channel correction implemented by Audyssey.

2. Lowering the crossover frequency from the calibrated setting is not recommended.
a. Audyssey will not provide correction to the satellite speakers lower than the frequency it measures as the -3 dB point.

3. Audyssey recommends that all speakers be set to “Small” (i.e. not Full Band) by selecting a crossover frequency. This will re-direct the frequencies below the crossover point to the subwoofer, resulting in improved headroom for the main amplifier and 8x higher MultEQ filter resolution in the subwoofer channel (e.g. flatter bass).
a. Setting the speakers to “Small” with a 60 Hz – 80 Hz crossover is a good starting point, assuming the post-calibration crossover setting is 60 Hz or lower.



E io stò di fatto alzando il livello di Crossover.

Purtroppo nei Marantz credo che questa parte non sia applicabile:

B. Raise the low-pass filter (LPF) setting—usually incorrectly identified as a crossover—of the LFE subwoofer in the receiver / processor to 120Hz, if allowed.

in quanto il HPF/LPF per diffusori SMALL e filtro LFE è uno solo nei Marantz e non vi è filtraggio sul canale LFE.

 

[danrobo]

ottimo Ale, raccolgo sempre ottime informazioni, allego questo Link per interpretare i risultati di REW: Link

perdonatemi se è già stato postato ..

 

[ALE77]

Neros tutto corretto, audissey imposta su large tutto quello che lui sente fino a 50 hz con -3db rispetto i 75 db di riferimento dello sweep...
Lo sai perchè lo fa secondo me ? Perchè come puoi vedere dalle mie curve rew a quelle frequnze ci sono i picchi dovuti alle risonanze e quindi lui li sente i 50 hz a 75 db, anzi nel mio caso anche di più...
Per i surround non lo fa perchè questi non riescono ad e ergizzarei modi di risonanza delle pareti adiacenti...
Corretto quindi rimettere frontali e centrale su small...
Sul marantz il crossover è sia passa alto che passa basso e secondo me ( e lo avevi detto anche tu ) 80 hz o 100 puó essere un buon valore... Tanto i filtri del crossover hanno una pendenza non esagerata...
È vero che il canale lfe a specifica arriva fino a 120 hz peró insomma, al nostro sub arriverà comunque solo un po'attenuato...
Con tutti i reindirizzamenti al sub dovuti ai diffusori su small io poi alzo di 2/3 db il sub perchè si trova più lavoro del previsto...
Hai letto la parte dell' re-eq e thx ?

 

[ALE77]

Danrobo grazie del link
Ci ero comunque finito già

 

[revenge72]

Neros tutto corretto, audissey imposta su large tutto quello che lui sente fino a 50 hz con -3db rispetto i 75 db di riferimento dello sweep...............[CUT]

.... però con questa logica tanto valeva prendersi dei front da libreria.... che dato che non ci arrivano fisicamente non avrebbero dato energia ai modi dai 60Hz in giù.... tanto tutto dagli 80/100 Hz in giù si sarebbe dovuto gestire dal Subwoofer ben equalizzato (anzi meglio due... ma simmetricamente equidistanti )

Non mi sembra una risposta adatta ad un sistema con l' ambizione di essere di qualità elevata.

 

[Neros22]

Nuovamente Revenge, non concordo.

Se ne è parlato più volte e molti hanno consigliato quei tagli anche a diffusori molto generosi.

Per il discorso bookshelf, è da tempo che ho sposato la filosofia... via le torri, dentro i bookshelf con ottimi stands e non me ne sono pentito un attimo, nel mio ambiente living.

 

[ALE77]

Neros hai m.p.
Fabio la soluzione che hai descritto me la sta proponendo da un anno almeno un operatore nonchè caro amico...
Per ascolto puramente di film la vedo anche adatta , mentre per la musica una torre che copre tutte le frequenze è secondo me da preferire...
Tu preferirsti una torre linearizzata e lasciata su large ?!

 

[Giigil]

Dopo queste discussioni torri e non torri ribadisco la mia e non solo mia, che ogni stanza ha il suo diffusore e quindi è innutile voler ficcarci dentro quello che altri hanno solo perchè si vorrebbe i diff grossi ecc.....
Poi ogni uno fa il cavolo che vuole

 

[Luca_CH]

Effettivamente...hai pienamente ragione!