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Discussione: Pioneer krp o nuovi 3D?
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14-05-2010, 20:45 #16
Leggi questa recensione, c'è il paragone col Kuro:
http://avforums.wordpress.com/
e poi dicci cosa hai deciso.
Alcuni estratti:
Picture Quality – 2D TV
So, lets answer the first question posed in this review and of course, the one thing everyone wants to know about, is the VT20 a worthy successor to the Kuro?
The answer is not a straight forward yes or no and for good reason. First of all we have the black levels and they are the best looking blacks Panasonic has ever introduced on a Plasma screen. They are close to the Pioneer standards and if they stay the same depth during the life of the TV, offer an interesting look at the future route of plasma. But does the VT20’s black levels match or better those of our two year old Reference LX5090? No they don’t, but they are not far off to be honest. Indeed its only when sitting both panels side by side and in dimmed lighting that you can see that the Pioneer still has the edge on the VT20. What is also striking with the VT20 when sat next to the Kuro is the effect the new screen filter has at rejecting ambient light. Even in well lit rooms the VT20 doesn’t follow the usual plasma trait of washing out its black levels and image detail. The filter manages to work just as well as the original Pioneer filters and allows the VT20 to be used in rooms other plasmas would struggle in. The filter doesn’t stop reflections on the screen and this is still one area where it may struggle in a bright room, but looking too at the new breed of LCDs; they all now have the same reflective glass panel surface so its probably not that big a disadvantage in real terms for the VT20.
We mentioned earlier that the VT20 also has a newly designed faster phosphor discharge design, which was introduced for the fast moving 3D side of things. However, this also has an advantage when viewing in 2D and that’s combating the phosphor trailing (or purple snakes) that used to be a common problem on previous Panasonic models. This phenomenon is now almost non-existent in the VT20 even when playing PS3 games with fast moving content.
Looking at our measurement graphs for the THX mode I mentioned that images can look a little on the yellow side in this preset, and that is true when I sat down to watch Public Enemies on Blu-ray. Colours look accurate and there is a good sense of depth where required thanks to that excellent black level. Shadow detailing is also good in out of the box settings with fine details in the higher end of the image also present. Skin tones can however look slightly yellow because of the greyscale characteristics in the THX mode and a little more accuracy would have been good. Even images from the Freeview HD tuner looked clean and there was a nice sense of sharpness on the better bandwidth channels.
Moving to the calibrated settings improved matters further with a better gamma curve adding a greater sense of dynamic range to proceedings. Here AVATAR was able to show its true depth of field in 2D form; and was a good advert for staying with the traditional style of film watching. Colours were again excellent and the corrected grayscale helped produce accurate skin tones with the right amount of reddish hue to cheek bones, adding some life back to proceedings. Obviously that only applied to the human characters!
But it is the improved black levels of the VT20 that really make this a stand out TV. While the final depth of the Kuro is not quite here, there are also some things the Panasonic does better. One is the sharpness of image available thanks to the images clean look. There is a reduced amount of PWM noise like the image we experienced with the 50inch VX100 early last year. This makes the image look crisper although it is not producing anymore detail than the Pioneer. Shadow detailing is also more pronounced on the VT20 due to its dynamic range, that is sure to entice viewers to search out those darker titles. However, there are also some small niggles caused by this cleaner image and in particular colour gradation with certain material. Scenes such as a sunset, where the sky has light to deep blues, in gradual gradational steps, there is banding within the VT20 image. This is not a common issue but once you are aware of it; you can be taken out of a particular scene you are watching. Whether this is caused by the lack of dithering used by Panasonic is open to debate, however there were also instances where posterisation was seen within backgrounds and occasionally on faces. However, these issues while annoying to videophiles are probably not going to be that obvious a flaw to the vast majority of viewers.
Overall in 2D picture mode the Panasonic VT20 offers up the best flatpanel TV pictures we have seen this year, and as the Pioneer Kuros are now rarer than rocking horse droppings to buy, it offers the best performance levels on the market as it stands at this time.
So, with ringing endorsements’ for its 2D performance, how does it handle 3D? Don’t tell me that after reading all that you forgot it was a 3D TV?
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14-05-2010, 20:53 #17
Cmq x dover di cronaca in quella recensione si parla di 5090 e non di KRP, che' e' appunto il titolo della discussione, e che va' un filio meglio del fratello + "piccolo"
Velodyne DD12+
Krell Industries Black Series + HTS 7.1 By Aurion Audio + KSA200S + KAV250a/3
Mac Mini(Amarra,Audirvana) + Apple TV + Toshiba XE1 + Dreambox 800HD
Pioneer KRP-600M ISF Calibrated
Black Diamond 2 Gen3 21.9 119" 4K Ready + Radiance Lumagen 3D
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14-05-2010, 21:18 #18
Originariamente scritto da Steven
non sapevo che il KRP avesse neri più neri del 5090.
Ciao
Per curiosità:
a TV accesa nel pieno della notte e con retina abituata al buio, il KRP, acceso ma senza segnale, è buio come la cornice? Noti che è acceso?Ultima modifica di stauDLP; 14-05-2010 alle 21:23
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14-05-2010, 21:47 #19
Se non notassi che è acceso, sarebbe una tv a contrasto infinito.
Ad ogni modo la recensione qualche errore lo contiene: un kuro 9G tarato ISF day non ha alcun problema nemmeno in ambienti illuminati (ha più candele al metro quadro di un VT20, e con l'antiriflesso i miracoli non li fai, se la luminosità ambientale è alta), e la differenza tra VT20 e kuro mi pare minimizzata un po' troppo, dato che non mi pare siano stati in molti a dire che, sì, in fondo gli 8G pioneer erano non molto peggio, come contrasto e nero (la differenza che c'è tra 9G e VT20 è quella), del resto 5 volte è sempre tanto (altrimenti bisognerebbe dire che il G20 è identico al VT20, visto che la differenza tra i due è decisamente inferiore alle 5 volte: per inciso, chiarisco che il G20 non è affatto identico al VT20, così come il VT20 non è poco peggio dei 9G).Nicola Zucchini Buriani
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14-05-2010, 21:58 #20
@stauDLP:
Non mi par di aver scritto che ha neri + profondi!? ho solo detto che in questo treadh si parla di KRP e che va' cmq meglio di un 5090 della rece,x via delle elettroniche "separate".
A tv accesa senza segnale come ha detto Onsl ovviamente si nota,altrimenti sarebbe a contrasto infinito
Detto questo........shakii cos'hai scelto?Velodyne DD12+
Krell Industries Black Series + HTS 7.1 By Aurion Audio + KSA200S + KAV250a/3
Mac Mini(Amarra,Audirvana) + Apple TV + Toshiba XE1 + Dreambox 800HD
Pioneer KRP-600M ISF Calibrated
Black Diamond 2 Gen3 21.9 119" 4K Ready + Radiance Lumagen 3D
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14-05-2010, 22:53 #21
Sospeso
- Data registrazione
- Jan 2009
- Messaggi
- 2.574
una tv usata è sempre un'incognita anche perchè il kuro non è un tv perfetto basta leggere le discussini ufficiali per rendersi conto che difetti anche fastidiosi sono presenti su dette tv, quindi o sei sicuro che il krp è perfetto o è meglio acquistare un prodotto comunque nuovo che presenta anche una interessante novità come il 3d che a parer mio avrà un successo enorme, lo testimonia il fatto che il vt20 sta andando letteralmente a ruba vuoi per le offerte vuoi per il 3d che tira da matti, per i kuro non ci fu tutta questa corsa all'acquisto perchè anche se tv notevoli non portavano con se il fascino dell'innovazione.
ESPRIMI UN PARERE, sondaggio plasma panasonic fullhd artefatti a 50hz: 1) con IFC OFF linea del campo di calcio che si sdoppia e IFC ON pallone che nei rinvii microscatta e tende a triplicarsi, 2) false contouring volti degli attori che nelle scene scure diventano violacei e rossastri sui plasma VT20,GT20,V20,G20,S20,V10,G10 http://www.avmagazine.it/forum/showthread.php?t=175592
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15-05-2010, 00:11 #22
Originariamente scritto da shakii
Ma poi i prezzi non si abbassano dopo un pò? E il taglio minimo è 54"?
Grazie.
Originariamente scritto da benefabio
Prova a fondo il Kuro, prima di rinunciare ad un prodotto nuovo, con la garanzia, e con una tecnologia che lo rende molto longevo.Ultima modifica di koshien; 15-05-2010 alle 00:17
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15-05-2010, 03:55 #23
Se mantengono i tagli dello scorso anno, 46 e 54" per la serie Z, ovviamente non arriverà mai a 2500€, a quel prezzo c'è il VT20.
Nicola Zucchini Buriani
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15-05-2010, 04:21 #24
Senza ombra di dubbio Pioneer KRP, e sei a posto.
Fosse per me il 3D manco esisterebbe...ciaoooo
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15-05-2010, 08:23 #25
Originariamente scritto da digital70