Fermi tutti... SHARP LC-42/46/52 XD1E

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da Dekard

Dimmi per favore, OGGETTIVAMENTE, se è possibile portarsi a casa al giorno d'oggi un plasma da 9000€, con il problema del burn-in, cosa che ti castra la visione normale? Anche se costasse 2000€, una cosa che sai degrada con l'uso (come gli lcd del resto) e che se non ci stai PIU' CHA ATTENTO ti ritrovi il logo di sky o canale 5 stampato a vita te lo porteresti a casa? Io SINCERAMENTE per quanto bene si possa vedere no. Ma ripeto, come dicevamo poco sopra, sono opinioni puramente personali....

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E infatti non penso nemmeno lontanamente di prenderlo: 8500€ sono un prezzo che non spenderei mai in una tv,e non si tratta di poterli o non poterli spendere,si tratta di buon senso.
Detto questo,se costasse una cifra decente(cioè 3000 e qualcosa euro al massimo),non ci penserei due volte a prenderlo: meglio stare attenti al burn in e vedere molto bene,che vedere così così ma non doversi preoccupare del burn in.
Comunque parliamo di aria fritta: adesso di tv comprabili non ne vedo,altrimenti non avrei deciso di aspettare.

Allora raga prime verifiche dirette sul campo(importante):

"Confirmed. Yes it DOES accept 1080p via HDMI. 1:1 and no overscan using dot by dot mode."

Perfetto!!!

Saluti myfriend

Due foto importanti:

Trasmissione in standard definition http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8688/dsc0359dk5.jpg
Questo è il commento: "The surprise was SD TV. Honestly the smart stretch on the Sharp is really really good for decent SD stations. this really won everyone over...The Panny is now in its final resting place - my bedroom Where hopefuuly it will give me many more years of service!"


Pc collegato via dvi-hdmi http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7293/dsc0363gv1.jpg

Saluti myfriend

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da myfriend

Allora raga prime verifiche dirette sul campo(importante):
"Confirmed. Yes it DOES accept 1080p via HDMI. 1:1 and no overscan using dot by dot mode."
Perfetto!!!
Saluti myfriend

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Queste sono le info che ci occorrono.

Penso che se si parte prevenuti e si pensa che la visione di questo LCD sia paragonabile a quella dei vecchi CRT magari Sony Trinitron in tutte le condizioni video si sbaglia di grosso ed è meglio lasciar perdere !!!!
A mio parere con 1700€ ( ....e forse anche meno !!!;) ) comperare un 37" del genere mi sembra un onesto rapporto QUALITA'/PREZZO.
Il mio vecchio Sony 25" 4:3 lo pagai i 2500€ di oggi, ma 14 anni fà !!!!:cry: non sò se mi spiego:eek:

:)

Prova completa di oltre tre ore di lavoro e di settings:

"SD Viewing

Using 480i from the afore mentioned SA8300 box via HDMI, the PQ on digital SD was anywhere from good to very good. (Outstanding being used for HD 1080i and fantastic being reserved for HD DVD at 1080i - just to give you a sense of my scale). Viewing Sd in 4:3 from about 7ft proved to be very watchable and stretched (using Sharp's smart stretch - which is excellent and beats the Panny just mode) using a good SD source was also very good. Poor SD sources were okay and certainly no worse than your prior CRT - stretching poor sources (Sd) at 7ft was enough pretty ugly. At 10 ft or better - all the SD sources looked pretty good stretched and most will find the SD PQ on this set to very watchable. The color space is pretty good and loss of color, red push does not become any more evident in viewing a 1080i source. It would have been nice of Sharp to allow us to adjust the color space for SD/HD sources as it clearly recognized tham and allows adjusting the color space elsewhere. I could not find a way to do this. Not that any other set does - just would have been nice I did not see where the noise reduction setting added any benefit. And it is also not in the PQ settings but under yet a completely different menu window. Sharp really should be shot for their poor menu and settings layout. It did not appear ay worse - or better.

You guys will have to ask specific questions on SD as I really do not pay much attention to it. Digital SD was for the most very good at almost all times and needless to say upconverted SD DVD (via my HD DVD were somewhere shy of fantastic)

1080i/720p Video

Using typical HD stations - Anywhere from excellent to very good. Discovery as usual had some stellar material and recent recordings of the Sea and Antartica were without question just unbelieveable. Very litttle mosquito noise (although at 2-3 ft one could see it) and same with macroblocking. Pans were clean and pixelation was not an issue. The footballs games to day were another story. While motion was not an issue - on several feeds there was a very noisy picture simply loaded with macroblcoking and mosquito noise. I ran my Panny Ed at the same time and found the feed to be the issue. However 52" of 1080p screen emphasized it and while watchable - was kinda irritating. It would go away and then return. At 10ft back not as much of an issue - at 7ft...I wanted to clobber the camerman, station and all those responsible for sending us garbage!!! Switching to the next game - PQ would then improve. Clearly this is a source and feed issue. But at 52" - the Sharp - just like all the other stellar 1080 sets out there is gonna emphasize the garbage you get from the overcompressed poorly shot video. NR and nothing I could touch on the set played it down much. Was this an overwhelming majority of the material...no...but if you shold be in your local BB when this is on - you will not get this set if that ends up being your only "viewing"!

Solid 1080i/720p material - was consistantly very good to excellent and made you appreciate the size of the display. Especially at 7ft where one could really appreciate all the detail.

I saw little difference in good 720p versus 1080i. 1080i tended to be a bit sharper - well and the colors were better/brighter and certainly more appealing than say FOX. We watched baseball/football and some recorded basketball and a bit of the Olympics. At no time did I see anything that could be considered motion blur that I would attribute to the display. (For those that have seen some of the pans done across the football field - that is the source and not the set!!!) I tried the 4ms setting and where I already had a not so good 1080i feed - in my mind it made it worse. Where the feed was excellent - I saw no difference. By worse - it introduced additional noise and macro blocking into the picture - on an excellent picture I could not discern that anything improved - I also did not see any negative effects. For the most part I left it off today. Many of the ball games looked great and I can't wait to watch tomorrow - and I mean watch the games and not the TV PQ

HD DVD

This is why you get one of these sets. OMG...Fantastic...Bloody wonderful. and yes - it is hyperbole...But the Sharp - when fed a really good source - just smokes anything less. I have seen the lsser size compeitors be equally as good. I have not seen them at 52" I wanted to watch all my HD DVD's again. Since I have not yet seen Batman Returns - I refused to watch more than 5 minutes - but yes...it is that good. If Sharp wanted to sell these sets to the masses - put in BR on an HD DVD and let it play. At 52" - you want more, bigger and closer. There really is nothing else to add here. If you end up with this set - you owe it to yourself to feed it some 1080i goodness, set it in dot by dot and well...you will lose the ability to play or tweak anymore. Thank God I was pretty much done for the day when I started with the HD DVD's. I lost my set then Upconverted DVD's looked quite good. I have been very happy with my A1 - paired with the Sharp - I am ecstatic

Mac & PS's

Despite what the manual says - the Sharp DOES take a 1080p input via HDMI - using dot by dot gives you 1:1 pixel mapping and there is NO overscan. Addiitonally you have the choice of colorspace to use as I reported earlier.RGB, YCbCr 4:4:4 or YCbCr 4:2:2

We also spend some time (okay my son and his friend) playing with their super duper PC's and they all connected without an issue at 1080p. However trying 1080p24 appeared to be more problematic. I thought I was seeing film based material and that they had actually got this working. However I was assured that they "faked" it out and could not get it to synch properly. the boys thought it hasd something to do with their settings and the Sharp timing. I got tired of them playing with this after about 45 minutes and my friends son is gonna bring over the "dedicated" HTPC they use at home for viewing this material and try again tomorrow. Apparently they thought they were close.

So - sorry folks - at the moment it does not appear to accept 1080p24, but will try again tomorrow.

PC usage at 52" from 7 ft is just great and since I can scale my web browser - no problem sitting and posting or reading forums Hey I did it earlier! The kids ran some games WOW and a few others which bored me to tears - but the dragons or whatever they were looked great and they assured me they were fine and there was no motion blur. They got into some discussion that went along the lines of how many frames are you getting - can your card do it and man look at it on this set - no mine is slow - no its your card dude.

My gist of the conversation was that if your card can handle the action - the set certainly can.

XBOX360

if it gets better than this - No one in my family is gonna be at work or school No motion blur - colors, brightness - detail was fantastic. Oblivion, Kamero and Tiger Woods and Call of Duty were all tried. It becomes very hard to pull yourself away...You guys have seen xbox360 before - now do it 1080p goodness on 52".... Brilliant!

Moviebeam

480p was pretty good. Movie beam actually does a pretty decent job of this. I did not like the 480p PQ on this set over my Panny. It is marginally better on the Panny. Simply too soft. Moviebeam 720p is nothing to write home about - and on a 1080p panel was just too soft and washed out looking. This is one source that displays much better on my Panny than the Sharp. Not bad - but your not gonna drop thousands on this set if this is your source."

;) ;) ;) :D :D

Saluti myfriend

Altri commenti dall'autore della prova sopra sul 52 di Sharp:

"Off axis viewing.
Going from about straight on to 150 degrees or so - there was no noticeable drop off in light or color. At about 170 degree's or therabouts - it was ever so slightly dimmer. Standing up - laying down or otherwise watching the display from a different vertical position did not change the PQ at all.

Build Quality
The build on this set is very nice. The stand is a heavy duty plastic with a metal underbase. Screws and finish are well done with no signs of stress or marring. The set feels very solid, button appear to work well and there were no strange buzzing or high pitched noises eminating from the set.

Aesthetics
This is pretty subjective as all of us have different tastes. I prefer a black unobtrusive bezel. While slightly nervous that the piano black would be too reflective - I am not going with a Plasma for this room for the very reason of severe glare and lack of light control - the piano black bezel did not impact me at all. It IS highly reflective and one could see spots of light - but it is so narrow in perspective to the actual display that after removing the plastic and looking at it without a picture - we all forgot about it. Not once did anyone say - oh look at those reflections. It simply disappeared with an image on the screen. So for us...not an issue. The set looks - for what we want - great and we are very pleased with the aesthetics. My SO - calls it "sexy" looking:0 Hmmmmm...Now I understand the competition

Remote
I rarley like remotes and this one is so so. It is backlit, and is easy to see. The buttons are more or less laid out okay. But one of the key buttons - which are the av modes - is buried under the slider. For the life of me I cannot imagine what Sharp was thinking in doing this. And the modes can ONLY be accessed this way as there is no setting on the menu system to bring it up. YUCK!!! Well - I have way too many devices to use this remote and will program my Harmony in the next day or so.

Manual
What can one say - it S****Ks. Let me give you a for instance...the PC stuff is ALL wrong. How about another - has instructions for putting the stand to gether and attaching to the display. Walks you through them step by step - inclduing how to attach it to your TV. A page later describes how to get the TV outta the box....Kinda like mixing the recipe for your cake after you put the pan in the oven.

It misses features - which you find by trial and error on the set - is blatantly wrong in several places, is laid in such a way that what you are looking for - how about what those menu items do - are pages removed from each other and just is about as useless as any manual I have ever encountered.

Sharp Menu Settings/Picture/Setup Etc
While pleasing to the eye - the layout of the menu is about as bad as the manual. There seems little rhyme or reason to why certain things are placed where they are. And I really think if you have buttons on the remote that do things - there ought to be an equivalent way to access it from the menu system. Why things are grayed out and when they work or don't is simply not explained anywhere. Oh...yeah...occasionally in the manual and then it is WRONG. I have not found all the different ways to tweak the set or dial it in - 'cause I am still trying to figure out what all the menu items do, remote buttons do and how they interact.

Im my mind this really is a serious oversight as those less versed in AV stuff are gonna find it difficult if not impossible to figure out why their TV does/doesnt work a certain way.

That said there are some really neat functions I am glad are there. Like being able to position the image on the display from apparently any source. Ability to remember and display the appropriate stretch/dot by dot etc mode dependent upon detected source. Setting the HDMI color space. Those are just a few I have found and used and will certainly be going through the rest with a fine tooth comb - as Sharp didn't bother spending much time with assisting you in how this set works!

Just thought I would give my impressions on some of the more mundane elements..."

Saluti myfriend

E ancora:
"Picture Settings or Tweakability or Whatever you want to call it!

There are the typical settings most would expect - basic color/hue sharpness whatever. While there is nothing labelled gamma - I assume the "black" enhancement feature is the Sharp equivalent of some course grained gamma control. There is a "white" control - that works more like your typical color space control - such as cinema etc. Though it has 5 settings versus the usual 3. Then you have your noise reduction, quick shoot and sharp controls. As already mentioned there are also mode controls that have a couple of other enhancements that turn on and off that are not accessible anywhere else.

Additionally - depending upon input and upon signal detection (480i versus 1080i or 1080p) there are different behaviors of the controls and what is accessible.

And there are also severla "auto" type controls such OPC which apprently is some type of automatic backlight sensor with various gradiant sliders.

I mention these various methods of configuration - because they have a direct impact on setting balck levels/contrast and ultimately getting a well calibrated picture dialed in with the right colors.

I spent all of about 30 minutes with DVE/AVIA before deciding I would do this when thats all I was solely doing. Each of these interact differently per input and within each other.

I am still of the opinion that the black levels on this set are very good. They certainly approach my panny and absence of dithering and other artifacting provide for some very clean pQ in setting the appropriate black levels. However, tweaking or changing the input, changing the backlight or just about any control throws this off. It does not appear to be a "set it and forget it' type of implementation. I spent the most time dialing in my HD DVD HDMI input. However, since i am using a HDMI switcher - what works well for 1080i film is not exactly the same for 1080i video. (Using the switcher they are using one of the 2 HDMI inputs on the set) hence per input memory does me no good. The mode method seems to work - until the set autodetects 480i and then suddenly my PQ changes.

So the long and short of this is that while I can dial in one source on one mode for one thing...and get it pretty good - doing this across all of my sources and understanding how the Sharp works - is not a 1 hour task...at least for me.

The infamous "red push" which is what you see at BB - can be gotten rid of in about 5 minutes - once you know how and where - but only for the input/source/mode you are in. Then you need to go back and work it again. Not undoable - just tedious.

I am very pleased with the black levels, and yes there are very comperable to my Panny plasma. I also am pleased with the color. I am not pleased with the coarse grained controls that have little explanation or none in some cases and having to do this by trial and error.

I guess there is a bright side to the minimalistic lack of inputs - your only gonna do this at most 4 times * 6 modes * the auto features

I am beginning to understand why there has been such varied reports of the PQ. Depending upon the source - the type of signal, which input, and a host of other variables...the PQ can indeed be that varied.

The out of the box settings do not even begin to do justice for this set and that is a shame...it is yet another one of those displays where tweaking will be necessary to bring it to the level that most of us want it to be at.

And why Sharp - since you decided to give us these plethora of settings - did you not include a basic gamma and RGB controls. This would have been so MUCH easier...."


Saluti myfriend

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da myfriend

Allora raga prime verifiche dirette sul campo(importante):

"Confirmed. Yes it DOES accept 1080p via HDMI. 1:1 and no overscan using dot by dot mode."

Perfetto!!!

Saluti myfriend

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:eek: oddio.. qundi con un cavo DVI-->HDMI potrei vedere il pc con risoluzione 1920x1080??? Sai giocare a PES6 dal divano di casa con un 46''??? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da Stefco

:eek: oddio.. qundi con un cavo DVI-->HDMI potrei vedere il pc con risoluzione 1920x1080??? Sai giocare a PES6 dal divano di casa con un 46''???

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Eh sì mio caro amico è proprio così.....:D ;)

Sinceramente vi devo confidare una cosa(che ho sempre pensato sin da quando ho deciso di comprare a scatola chiusa questo lcd, fidandomi del mio intuito...):

Sono sempre stato convinto(al di là di queste prime recensioni) che questi nuovi sharp avrebbero soddisfatto le mie aspettative(pur conscio che come per tutte le tecnologie e per tutti i modelli qualche ma.....sarebbe venuto fuori).
Ma la cosa più importante da sottolinare è che rispetto ai prezzi dei full hd che c'erano sul mercato fino ad adesso qui siamo veramente anni luce più giù(basti pensare che stiamo comprando un 46xd1e praticamente al prezzo praticato per il 37pf9731 di philips,che peraltro non accetta il 1080p su hdmi....!!!)
Certo come sappiamo la tecnologia non è che va avanti,corre(e sull'hd seconde lo farà a 200 all'ora...): quindi ovvio che fra 6-7 mesi ci sarà di meglio.

Ma io in questi 6-7 mesi mi sarò goduto già un grandissimo tv.....
E fra 6-7 mesi si starà parlando della novità di fine 2007......:cry:

Saluti myfriend

lo da per il 24 ottobre.
Dal mio rivenditore nessuna nuova ma a questo punto ritengo di dovere aspettare fino a quella data

Raga qualcuno di buona volonta può fare una traduzione anche sommaria delle prove fatte????

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da myfriend

Despite what the manual says - the Sharp DOES take a 1080p input via HDMI - using dot by dot gives you 1:1 pixel mapping and there is NO overscan.

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Quindi sul manuale nega il supporto ai 1080p? Oppure il mappaggio 1:1?
Bha, che casino, poi anche questa storia che sembra ci siano problemi a 1080p@24 non mi convince, speriamo qualcuno faccia ulteriori prove!

mmm, sto iniziando a seguire anche questo forum e devo dire che è interessante. Se devo dire la mia su questo prodotto sembrerebbe essere il nuovo punto di riferimento per rapporto qualità/prezzo. Io rimango sempre innamorato dei philips e dei loro filtri ma dopo lo sgarro del 9731 i miei orizzonti si stanno ampliando. Solo una cosa non mi convince molto di questo xd1e: il design. Mi sembra troppo sempliciotto.
Resta comunque un ottimo prodotto!

ragazzi aiutatemi a capire le reali dimensioni del LC46XD1E:confused:
da slcune schede tecniche risulta essere 113x79x30 io ho un "vano" di 135x80x60, secondo voi in altezza, rischio grosso??????????
:help: :help:

Citazione:

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Originariamente scritto da Nodial

Quindi sul manuale nega il supporto ai 1080p? Oppure il mappaggio 1:1?
Bha, che casino, poi anche questa storia che sembra ci siano problemi a 1080p@24 non mi convince, speriamo qualcuno faccia ulteriori prove!

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Di quel che dice il manuale interessa davvero poco se la prova fatta sul campo dimostra il supporto del 1080p via dvi-hdmi del pc!!!!!;) :D
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7293/dsc0363gv1.jpg
Per quanto riguarda il 1080p a 24hz,non è stata effettuata alcuna prova pratica ancora sul campo non essendoci una fonte disponibile.
Vedremo all'atto pratico...


Saluti myfriend